cant give it away

Discussion in 'Mail Chat' started by SlashTwenty4, Jul 3, 2012.

  1. SlashTwenty4

    SlashTwenty4 New Member

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    i know this is odd but i control some IP space and recently have been looking to add additional clients (mailers) and we thought if we reached out to legitimate looking mailers on Linkedin we would be doing ourselves a favor turns out we dont have any 'Street Cred' or 'Rep' or whatever the fuck so people think we are scammers.. what to do?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
  2. DaMadHatter

    DaMadHatter Active Member

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    I am sure if you want to give it away, or do a revenue share with you putting up the space and taking all of the risks, someone will be moer than happy to take it off your hands. When it comes to brokering IP space, there is a lot more to it than just the IP space alone. Including knowing how to deal with all of the pitfalls that come with mailer clients.

    While there are many legit mailers, affiliate networks, and ESP's who run a clean ship and know what they are doing (clean data, how to set up a server, RDNS, etc.). You also have many who do not. One bad apple can torch your space in a month and leave you with nothing more than some Haus clean up, and your whole allocation cloudmarked.

    I think being called a "scammer" is a bit harsh if they do not know you, but this is a small market. Most people either know one another, or can pick up a phone and find out about whomever. It works the same for mailers, as for ISP's or brokers. If someone new pops up, you can typically make a couple of calls and get the details on if they are a good guy or not. With the risks involved on the ISP or IP side of the equation, you really have to do some level of due diligence.

    I would not take it personal. You're just an unknown it sounds like. Anyway, welcome to MF.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
  3. rootshell

    rootshell New Member

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    Your best bet would be to link up with a known, trusted provider and act as a supplier. Since you're new as you say, it's possible the provider will want the IPs delivered before payment is made. This is standard and one of the reasons why you want to make sure the provider you deal with is well established and trusted.

    I can point you to one or two if you're interested.
     
  4. SlashTwenty4

    SlashTwenty4 New Member

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    You are right on all points

    I even took off the WhoisGuard on our website over the weekend to promote transparency...I use my real name on linkedin. usually we don't setup a server with less than a /20 so the inherent costs weeds out most of the IP Burners and general dipshits - i guess your right i shouldn't take it personal
     
  5. SlashTwenty4

    SlashTwenty4 New Member

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    we have good reputation with hosting companies who dont want to really advertise they are mailer ready and we have several large blocks at our disposal whos owners are willing to work with mailers as long as they dont get in dutch with the RIRs our main business is the buying and selling of Legacy IP ranges in the /18 and up tier
     
  6. DaMadHatter

    DaMadHatter Active Member

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    Correct.

    Working in the /24, /21, /20 and higher crowd is a whole different ball game then working with the small fry /27 guys. No offense to either side of that equation, however that is just how it is. The bigger the dollar amounts, the more transparent you need to be.

    However, the risks also get much higher being an ISP/broker. If you're a single ISP, you only have so much space you can sell. The blocks you have are finite. If you're a broker, you have infinite space, and variety. You are not blocked into any one "neighborhood". This is obviously advantageous for some clients.

    Not everyone wants to be back to back to back on a /24 with a bunch of other /27 clients, which does happen at many ISP's. They have a block they reserve for mailer clients, and the quality of that space will vary. You will see the same blocks recycled again and again at some of the usual suspects that /27 guys go too.

    I could probably name a few dozen ISP's that do this off the top of my head. They simply have one section of their IP space where they choose to keep the mailers, and then put their legit non-mailer clients on other allocations so they remain unaffected. All in all not a bad business model for the ISP involved I suppose, but not so good for the mailers who want decent space. Instead, they end up back to back with some other scorched earth GI mailer who doesn't give a shit.

    Anyway, I would recommend you do some networking, get some introductions, and over time you will find what you seek. This industry is ever changing. One month everyone wants Hotmail and continuous /20's, next month everyone wants /24's Yahoo, then something changes at the majors, and they flood to /27's and GI. The only constant is change in this game.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
  7. DaMadHatter

    DaMadHatter Active Member

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    There are many ISP's out there who have a "back alley" business and use a go-between. Apparently, they prefer the plausible deniability, which is fine. However, they also count you the go-between to make sure you are only bringing in the quality, paying, low grief clients. In these incidents, it's all about relationships and networking. I can't think of any with good IP space willing to knowingly take on GI clients, and we work with dozens of them all around the world.

    Legacy blocks eh?

    I must be talking to one of your minions on a couple of /16's. I have an ISP and another client interested in them.
     
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  8. SlashTwenty4

    SlashTwenty4 New Member

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    i dont know are you in Pakistan?

    seriously it is a possibility i do have another /16 coming under contract soon which is Pristine space. Pre Arin and can be SWIPd and transferred to buyer through ARIN transfer as /18s
     
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  9. DaMadHatter

    DaMadHatter Active Member

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    Nope.

    I guess it's a different legacy block broker then. At least based on your reply and price being quoted.

    We have buyers for legacy blocks. Plenty of ISP's in the market. However, you have to be able to prove ownership. Right now there are four being offered we know of pre-ARIN.

    Anyway, it sounds like you're well connected... you're just unknown to some degree. If you're lucky, you can catch on with an ad network, ESP, or alike. Then you would only need to deal with a handful of heavy hitters, buying up bulk allocations, and paying you on time versus chasing down a dozen small fries.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
  10. SlashTwenty4

    SlashTwenty4 New Member

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    ad network = affilliate network? examples/recommendations would be great

    ive spoken with a couple ESPs but things are slow moving on that front i have two deadlines i have to meet and i need to lockdown some new clientel
     
  11. DaMadHatter

    DaMadHatter Active Member

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    Right now it is a slow-go in the IP space across the board. It's been like that past couple of months.

    Some of our partners have started adjusting their prices to the point we can undercut just about anyone. There is a lot of supply, and some of the terms we are seeing are getting more aggressive. In the past, you would typically see $3-4.00 and higher per IP for guaranteed clean space. We are now seeing a lot of insane deals. Historically, most of the IP space across the market was in the same ballpark in regards to cost per IP, terms demanded, and so forth. It was easy to price out and have some level of standardization.

    Now there is so much cheap stuff out there, you could have 6 different providers and 6 very dramatic price differences and terms. Now you have to do more fact finding in regards to what the client wants, which TLD's they are looking to hit, new or used pricing, the term commitment, bandwidth and all of that jazz. Then based on the information, you have to pair them up accordingly with the space that is the best deal.

    Anyway, I wish you luck on filling your quota. As for the ad networks or ESP's... typically they will seek you out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
  12. SlashTwenty4

    SlashTwenty4 New Member

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    Your Signature says it all
     
  13. DaMadHatter

    DaMadHatter Active Member

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    Well, it really is more about getting the right clients. Hence the signature information. If you're looking for TLD, we have deals. GI? Not so much.

    We used to deal with everyone, and now prefer the /24 and higher TLD clients mostly. They know they are they are doing, pay on time, and are professionals. Their data is clean, you rarely get any complaints of any kind. If there is a screamer, it's dealt with quickly. You do not have air raid sirens going off daily. We still do SWAP servers, and work with some of our old clients who have the smaller allocations, but again, they typically know what they are doing, and you have minimal grief. That is what the various ISP's are looking for.

    :five:
     

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