DBL Listings

Discussion in 'Mail Chat' started by JayM, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. JayM

    JayM VIP

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    Every morning I change my IP's and my domains. Almost right after my first drop my domains gets listed in the DBL. So I just drop the rest of the day on it and that start all overs again in the morning. Anyone have an idea as to why this happens every day? If I change to a new domain it happens again so I just go with the first one.
     
  2. inblock

    inblock VIP

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    Welcome to mail.
     
  3. JayM

    JayM VIP

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    I hear you. Tomorrow I'm going to start to test switching up the domain/IP about half way through the day. I suspect I will make more money that way? I'll let you know
     
  4. Throughput Sales

    Throughput Sales VIP

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    You are most likely getting Profiled! You should be able to mail DBL free. Otherwise it is pointless! Why waste your time on a drop w a 3 point spam assassin hit! If you are on a domain account that has had some recent blacklist hits or any blacklist hits combo'd w buying .info's or .in's, using privacy policy, attaching multiple IP's to one domain, etc. you are and could be at risk of getting DBL'd! DBL is not all trap based. It is keyed off behavior as well. They can key off your registrar ID. Push Send gave me some valuable points on this! Might wanna hit him up on it! Try a new domain account, but make sure you keep it clean of the things mentioned above! Once they get ya, you are pretty much fucked. Keeping DBL away can double your rev on drops!
     
  5. Throughput Sales

    Throughput Sales VIP

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    Stay away from this mentality for sure if you wanna succeed!
     
  6. instaclick

    instaclick VIP

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    i have same dbl issue - i switched to .coms only and even changed registrar accounts and DBL on the first drop within 5 minutes. Maybe my footer is getting pegged?
     
  7. Throughput Sales

    Throughput Sales VIP

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    If the domain is clean, then you mail , then u hit DBL even if it is only 5 mins into the drop then it is trap based. The DBL feeds off a very large network and there are tons of traps in average GI data! If you are getting DBL'd on domains that you have never mailed on, then you are most likely being profiled!

    Try this:
    Switch to new account, only mail a domain like yahoo at first! You will not get a DBL on your domains. This is the ultimate test. The second you throw a GI list in there, you hit a few traps, now you are potential for the DBL,s happening due to the profiling.

    Keep in mind that it is not rocket science for any of these blacklists to detect spam, Anyone can pretty much assume if you own more than 100 domains w Namecheap that you are mailing let alone all the other things like .info's, privacy, multiple ips to one domain, new domains (not aged), etc.
     
  8. asiatiki

    asiatiki VIP

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    Try re-cleaning your list with ImpressionWise or HygieneAgent... if it's trap-based, one of these two services will probably be able to remove the trap.
     
  9. inblock

    inblock VIP

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    Actually, filters can't see how many domains you have in your registrar account. I've been using the same account for a long time with no issues and 1000+ domains later.

    If they actually "keyed' off registrar ID's no one would be mailing and we'd all be SBL'd into oblivion. There are various other factors such as sending volume and speed. If you send a ton in one drop of course you're going to get hit when SH sees so much volume off that domain or complaints etc...especially with common hosts like Singlehop.

    Where's your proof for all of these things you're claiming?
     
  10. instaclick

    instaclick VIP

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    i believe it is trap based and not profiled but im not sure -

    maybe moving away from namecheap? ( namecheap reminds me of registerfly, for those who remember )

    reclean is the only option i think but the files were just cleaned.....
     
  11. JayM

    JayM VIP

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    I don't think it's trap based? It still happens after an IW cleaning.
     
  12. JayM

    JayM VIP

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    Awesome info. Thanks for sharing
     
  13. Throughput Sales

    Throughput Sales VIP

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    I am not talking about filters, I am talking about a scanning technology that scans the web for known information. Very similar to how the data hygiene companies find their info. It is really not that hard. Explain how Jay is getting DBL'd on a domain without mailing on it if it is 100% trap based. There are other factors to consider like I mentioned in my initial post and like you mentioned here:

    Keep in mind we are talking about getting a DBL prior to a drop not while sending. If you are hitting a DBL during the send it is going to be Trap based 100% of the time.

    Let me go on,

    Using the same domain account with 1,000+ domains on GI (probably all .info's) and by knowing you probably not very clean either,....... in my opinion is not a very smart idea and by the statement you made "Welcome to Mailing" one could only assume that you are mailing dirty. No advice on how you keep your domains squeaky clean? Come on Rocky, give us your two cents.

    I disagree here completely because this is not how the SBL works. As far as the registrar ID's go, this was information I learned from some of the veteran mailers in the business. I guess it could be wrong but then explain how a DBL happens on a domain prior to a drop.

    Which is from my initial statement which then leads to profiling, which then leads to the DBL prior to drop situation. Traps, .Info's, Namecheap, Volume of Send, Complaints, Poor Rep IP's, etc. give the DBL a way to profile you as a spammer and then use your registrant ID to track you down and DBL your domains prior to you even dropping.

    I am not trying prove anything to you. Jay asked for some advice and I am giving him what my findings are. They could be wrong and they could be right! I dealt with the same issues and figured a way around them and I am confident that these things hold true and until proven otherwise these will be my assumptions. I challenge you to give us some advice on how to mail clean. Please chime in!
     
  14. JohnFarrell

    JohnFarrell VIP

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    If you're not using private registration then yes it's extremely simple for them to sbl, dbl, whateverbl domains before you even mail on the. If you're using private registration other than IP space I don't see how they could tie back anything to one account. Could you please give an example of a registrant ID that's public?
     
  15. Throughput Sales

    Throughput Sales VIP

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    If you are clean and then you start mailing and are not clean anymore, I would say it is 100% likely that it is trap based. IW is the best at cleaning in my opinion, and we use them and their re-cleaning environment religiously but either way it is impossible to remove everything. Your data cleanse is only as good as your data source. Ever heard the statement, Garbage in Garbage out? With the amount of garbage GI data out there it is almost impossible for IW or any other cleansing company to keep on top of it. Additionally the DNS changes on these traps daily. This is why IW has the re-cleaning environment. One hour a domain is dirty and the next hour it is not. The DBL trap network is much larger than anyone could imagine. Good thing the DBL is not considered a serious trap or we would all have major issues. The good thing is all those DBL'd domains will work great for Yahoo!
     
  16. Throughput Sales

    Throughput Sales VIP

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  17. JohnFarrell

    JohnFarrell VIP

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    Can you give me an example of a public registrant id? I'm looking at my domains and see nothing that indicates a registrant id on any of them.
     
  18. Throughput Sales

    Throughput Sales VIP

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    This is on a private domain, which we do not do anymore because we want to continue mailing CALI

    Domain ID:D45278519-LRMS
    Domain Name:SKYNEWSGROUP.INFO
    Created On:05-Feb-2012 16:35:35 UTC
    Last Updated On:05-Apr-2012 20:39:14 UTC
    Expiration Date:05-Feb-2013 16:35:35 UTC
    Sponsoring Registrar:eNom, Inc. (R126-LRMS)
    Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
    *****************************************
    Registrant ID:dec30fab5c4d0eb1 <------------------- This is how
    your domain purchases can be tracked.

    *****************************************
    Registrant Name:WhoisGuard Protected
    Registrant Organization:WhoisGuard
    Registrant Street1:11400 W. Olympic Blvd. Suite 200
    Registrant Street2:
    Registrant Street3:
    Registrant City:Los Angeles
    Registrant State/Province:CA
    Registrant Postal Code:90064
    Registrant Country:US
    Registrant Phone:+1.6613102107
    Registrant Phone Ext.:
    Registrant FAX:
    Registrant FAX Ext.:
    Registrant Email:[email protected]
    Admin ID:e53b219e15ec8089
    Admin Name:WhoisGuard Protected
    Admin Organization:WhoisGuard
    Admin Street1:11400 W. Olympic Blvd. Suite 200
    Admin Street2:
    Admin Street3:
    Admin City:Los Angeles
    Admin State/Province:CA
    Admin Postal Code:90064
    Admin Country:US
    Admin Phone:+1.6613102107
    Admin Phone Ext.:
    Admin FAX:
    Admin FAX Ext.:
    Admin Email:[email protected]
    Billing ID:dec30fab5c4d0eb1
    Billing Name:WhoisGuard Protected
    Billing Organization:WhoisGuard
    Billing Street1:11400 W. Olympic Blvd. Suite 200
    Billing Street2:
    Billing Street3:
    Billing City:Los Angeles
    Billing State/Province:CA
    Billing Postal Code:90064
    Billing Country:US
    Billing Phone:+1.6613102107
    Billing Phone Ext.:
    Billing FAX:
    Billing FAX Ext.:
    Billing Email:[email protected]
    Tech ID:0ef0465d74150e94
    Tech Name:WhoisGuard Protected
    Tech Organization:WhoisGuard
    Tech Street1:11400 W. Olympic Blvd. Suite 200
    Tech Street2:
    Tech Street3:
    Tech City:Los Angeles
    Tech State/Province:CA
    Tech Postal Code:90064
    Tech Country:US
    Tech Phone:+1.6613102107
    Tech Phone Ext.:
    Tech FAX:
    Tech FAX Ext.:
    Tech Email:[email protected]
    Name Server:DNS1.REGISTRAR-SERVERS.COM
    Name Server:DNS2.REGISTRAR-SERVERS.COM
    Name Server:DNS3.REGISTRAR-SERVERS.COM
    Name Server:DNS4.REGISTRAR-SERVERS.COM
    Name Server:DNS5.REGISTRAR-SERVERS.COM
    Name Server:
    Name Server:
    Name Server:
    Name Server:
    Name Server:
    Name Server:
    Name Server:
    Name Server:
     
  19. Quartermaster

    Quartermaster New Member

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    I've been lurking for a while here, and I've had some seat time mailing both GI and TLD.

    As for DBL'd domains prior to drop, I've noticed that as long as I purchased domains at a given quantity per purchase per day, I seemed to avoid getting DBL'd prior to drop.

    As for the mechanics of how anyone could list your domains based on your WHOIS or your buying habits/frequency, at least to me it looks fairly simple, here's how I would do it -

    Every domain has a domain ID. They are of course serialized, e.g. 12345 and then the next domain registered immediately following that one is 123456.

    Therefore if I'm interested in listing mailers, I'll assume correctly (in most all cases) that a mailer is going to purchase domains in large quantity at once, generally speaking, GI or TLD. The reason I assume this is because I highly doubt your average dude is going to sit there and buy one domain after another individually for GI mailing, where you expect to dump expendable domains after pretty much every drop. It's just not worth the time.

    Time is money to mailers and Spamhaus feeds alike.

    LRG420's point about listing by registry I believe has some validity to it and my assertion is that I could rig up a basic botnet to poll whois regularly and catalog reporting to sort domain IDs by serial chains registered within X or Y time period rulesets.

    For example, here are two domains that were registered literally within minutes of each other (I know because I own em) -

    D45278502-LRMS
    D45278510-LRMS

    Those two IDs are within 8 digits of each other, the next batch I buy I can track more finely and I'm sure I'll see the whole string of them within a single digit of each other, etc.

    In summary though, DBL no doubt employs traps as well as whois polling like this because you all have seen drops hit a DBL mid drop, and you've all no doubt seen domains grab DBLs prior to drop, I know I have.

    Therefore avoiding DBLs would be at least in one sense seemingly unavoidable from the serialized tracking point of view, but in the trap sense in-drop, definitely avoidable.

    Bear in mind I'm not making any claims as to whether or not what I just said was 100% accurate, that's just a hypothesis on how I would do it if I were a Spamhaus misanthrope sitting there brewing a dozen pots of coffee a day, feverishly hunting down evil mailers...
     
  20. JohnFarrell

    JohnFarrell VIP

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    Not a single one of mine have a unique id any where in them. I'm going to say he feed you a line, because all the infos I have in the same account all have unique "Registrant ID " fields. It also appears that only infos have that field listed.
     

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