Ohh Barracuda

Discussion in 'Noob Central' started by IronApe, Sep 17, 2011.

  1. IronApe

    IronApe New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    Hi Guys,

    First, I want to thank the admins who set up this forum and all the posts everyone makes. You guys are killer. Its refreshing to see a forum where there is a ton of info but respect for discretion, you all have created something really worth reading. Ive done my homework and read almost all of the posts on here, so I hope I can bring good questions worth your time.

    I am doing GI and making okay money (for a n00b) with it. I have some list partners, clean my lists religiously through both the big boys (Q and IW) weekly, and have 10 operational servers. My question is related to another post in here about getting DBL'd domains, sometimes before I drop.

    I am getting barracuda'd within an hour on a fresh clean IP, then getting my domains DBL'd quickly everytime I tie to that IP. My IW fellow tells me he is taking out barracuda spam traps, but I must be hitting it through their filtering network from pure volume and who I'm sending to. Another GI mailer mentioned removing your IP's before every drop, but I tried that and they only cleaned one with the email I gave them, I also assume I cant remove the same IP every day / week without them getting wise, please correct me if its that easy....I also have a "One Click Unsub" so I assume any b-bots are unsubbing from my list if they roll through all my links.....

    So the question summed up is: How do I stay of of Barracuda's IP baddie list when GI mailing? Please ask me any questions about my config if that would make a difference. Im a hungry hungry hippo for knowledge. :eating:

    Ive also dug up a lil light listening for anyone who is kind enough to reply:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4nWy8pmIM4
     
  2. Fun4uoc

    Fun4uoc VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    Messages:
    605
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Got to give you a +rep for dropping some old school heart on us.
     
  3. nickphx

    nickphx VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,139
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    guadalajara, chiuhuahua
    List cleaning services are bullshit. It's obvious you're consistently hitting a trap. You could try segmenting your data to find the traps.. I don't remember how barracuda works.. Do they provide a timestamp of when the trap was hit?
     
  4. IronApe

    IronApe New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    Thanks for that, I thought that was fitting for this post fun....

    Ya nickphx, thanks for weighing in, I've read quite a few of your posts....Not sure if they provide a timestamp, I see where you are going and that would be good info for isolating a trap. My ISPs don't seem to care, so I don't ever even receive a copy of the complaint...unlike a savvy user, spamcop or a full sbl....Ive even gotten some IP's that come Pre-B'd, is seems like the ISP's dont even take the time to clean them off in some cases. I agree data guys are often full of it... but If IW is finding these through mx's and known barracuda ips/server owners, thats about all I can do from a reverse engineering standpoint. I think barracuda has their own content filtering system that any joker it guy can plug into their mail server. Do you get hit with them when you mail GI, or is it DEF a trap?

    Isolating it would be tough, in that case I may have multiple wolves weaved in, and my opt-in list is 7.5 million and growing every week:)...so using a segmented approach would be rough as I don't have enough Ip's to churn through segments, then get hit and break it in half, isolating it, getting hit again, and may have multiple wolfheads like I said.. Any other ideas on isolating the issue? Do you know how they blacklist you? I assume the collect data through their filtering system, so what are they looking for? Someone must have cracked this cookie or Im doing something wayyyyy wrong to trigger it on every drop....do they look at fresh / vintage domains or rdns or anything else?....this is a big deal for me because I want to do everything right, but I dont hear anyone else complaining about it so I know I'm screwing the pooch somehow.....
     
  5. roundabout

    roundabout VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    154
    Trophy Points:
    63
  6. DKPMO

    DKPMO VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,452
    Likes Received:
    68
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Elaborate Underground Base
    Yup, most list cleaners are way overrated.

    I have never ever seen a true permanent listing... Is this a recent thing or has been going for a long time? All I've seen is you mail, get listed, remove it, keep mailing, nothing bad happens.
     
  7. nickphx

    nickphx VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2011
    Messages:
    1,139
    Likes Received:
    363
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    guadalajara, chiuhuahua
    7.5m list is a decent size. Segmenting and finding the traps is not an impossible feat, it will just take some work.. You need to come up with solid segments that will break the data into manageable chunks and test those segments.

    When you're getting blocked are you taking new IPs , meaning IPs that have not sent mail and that barracuda has never seen, and sending commercial stuff right away? Have you tried sending something else from new IP space instead of offers?

    After reading the link from roundabout, it seems possible you may be mailing someone or several someones that are flagging your mail as spam.. In that case I would try segmenting your data by people that have not performed any positive action in the last 60 days. By positive action I mean things like opening and clicking. So take people out that have not opened or clicked on any of your campaigns in the last 60 days.. Don't mail them. Break the ones up that have performed a positive action and mail those.


    Another idea.. Depending on your setup, I would try to group the recipients by domain.. Get a count of amount of recipients per domain. I would prune domains with less than 1000 users. Unless you're really going balls out on GI and mailing a few recipients per domain, this shouldn't hurt you. I've used this and other methods to remove traps and other nasties..

    I think I have a script somewhere in my archives that would take a list, grab all the unique recipient domains, look up the mx records for them and store the records in a database. I could then run a query to find the domains that shared mx records or search for domains with certain mx records. This helped me when I was mailing GI to find nasties.. Pig fuckers.
     
  8. IronApe

    IronApe New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    Nice find roundabout! Im at 2/3 on the bullets so I'll test this on Friday when that 4day window opens. Thanks man.

    Hey DKPMO, no Im not even delisting it as Im going to get it back 30 minutes....And your right, nothing directly bad happens...I just have a higher spam assasin score and my domains get DBL'd within 45 minutes of binding to that dirty IP, giving me an even higher SA score, lowering GI delivery if they have blacklist enabled, which any barracuda content filter user has out of the box from what Ive read. I assume the quick spamhaus DBL is because the haus is scraping barracuda data and monitoring those IP's seeing my newly bound domains. To answer your question, it happens when I get a fresh server, with clean IP's, within 12 hours of making my first drop.
     
  9. PushSend

    PushSend VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,927
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Paradise
    Look, you're doing GI so you must have access to multiple ISP/server providers - so it's easy. Buy a cheap server from several of them and segment your list accordingly. Put each server/list in motoin - the one that butt fucks you is obviouly the one with your trap data. Take your results and make your moves - case closed.

    :32:
     
  10. IronApe

    IronApe New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    Thanks pushsend, yes its not impossible to do this, my current config just lotterys the data when I load it and send from multiple IP's, so I'd have to change my engine. The reason I'm still thinking it's not a trap is because I was regularly getting SBL'd when I first started, and now that I am cleaning my data like a lil spam avoiding monkey, I never get SBL'd, or at least far far less....So why can the cleaners find Haus traps and not Barr Traps. Terrible pun totally intended.

    To answer your question nickphx, yes, Im doing straight cowboy style GI 4 drops a day and mailing commercial from the first second on a box with 5 ips....80% of my data is 1-3 unique emails at a domain, so that would crush my grapes...So to speak. And yes, I'll run a few tests with openers only, deliverables only and so forth. I just remembered I have 4 unmailed IP's on new boxes, so I can test this and roundabouts finds tomorrow and report results back.
     
  11. roundabout

    roundabout VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    154
    Trophy Points:
    63
    IronApe,

    I don't believe theres a direct correlation between Barracuda and SBLs. If you do a Google search for the terms Barracuda 554, you will find that even companies like Google can get their mail servers on the Barracuda black list. It could be that Barracuda is using a bit more aggressive spam filtering and rejecting more valid e-mails than other blacklisting services.

    If you're getting DBLd, it's most likely due to traps in your data.

    If you monitor your drop as it goes out, you'll probably find the DBL pops up first, then followed by a SURBL listing. Believe it or not, the SURBL is the first trap triggered (they come first) and since DBL is tied to the SURBL, it should follow, but it precedes it (I have to assume SURBL is just slow to update its servers).

    SURBL has traps everywhere, and they keep opening them up every month, so you'll want to definitely clean your stuff but more importantly, your data source is suspect if you're getting listed with DBLs and SURBLs, so you'll want to get something cleaner.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011
  12. roundabout

    roundabout VIP

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,713
    Likes Received:
    154
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Sorry didn't mean permanent as forever, more like 4 weeks or so. That's forever to a mailer who has good cable domain rep on that IP, Barracuda aside.

    I can't pin down why or how it happens, but I have narrowed it down to delisting an IP, then mailing the same data set within 24 hours and triggering the same (trap?) or issue to cause it to relist, then delisting the same IP within that 24 hour period - which turns off the automatic recovery and forces a manual one - which can then take like 4 weeks to be removed from their lists.

    As a rule of thumb, if you delist an IP, wait 72 hours before re-using, to be safe.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2011
  13. IronApe

    IronApe New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    Yes, I don't think they are interrelated from a tech standpoint. I meant to say, I usssed to get SBL'd IP's all the time....once I started cleaning my data religiously the SBL's went away (Mostly - this is GI for goodness sakes), so if my cleaning company can uncover those SBL traps, why can't they uncover the Barracuda traps? That's what leads me to believe its more of user complaints / Filtering network, but a lot of you have mentioned its Barracuda traps so I am staying open minded. And you may be right, they may just have a more aggressive filter practice.

    Since you brought up SURBL that's something to talk about, I rarely get the SURBL's, but allllways get the DBL. So the whole reason I am trying to figure out this Barracuda issue is that I will have DBL's on 20% of my fresh domains wayyyyy before I even drop, about 45 minutes after binding. From reading another post I am now seasoning to stay off of Monkey's list, unpointing black domains away from my ip's, and trying not to point fresh domains at black barracuda IP's - to remove that darn DBL....I can only assume that these guys don't have the resources to monitor the whole internet, so they are scraping each others blacklists to figure high volume IP's / fresh domains...and throwing any new domain they see that binds to it in their list, maybe scanning once a day for new domains to blacklist you on. Makes sense if I am on spam eating monkey from no seasoning and I get a DBL within 10 minutes of dropping but no SURBL right?

    Now that being said, I ran a certain offer the other day and killled it....buuuut got SURBLd on 5 out of 9 domains. Weird how I never get them but that offer seemed to trigger it...When running through spam assassin it caught the company name in the unsub at the bottom as a black domain...Offer.Com... which i changed to just "Offer", deployed, and then triggered all of those SURBLs - So as well as whatever traps SURBL uses, they must also get the creative from non-trap sources, click your links and see where they go. This makes me think I now need to check my aff links, what if the network your using has a blacklisted tracker link? Or the offer domain is on a list...Then your just screwed I guess....no amount of data cleansing will do it...I just checked and that link isn't triggering spam assassin anymore so maybe they changed their MX.
     
  14. IronApe

    IronApe New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Home Page:
    What am I talking about, MX wouldn't make a difference if they were on a domain BL...they must have removed themselves from that blacklist. This must be why you network threatens to shut off your account when they catch wind of you getting an SBL. I always wondered why ADK shut down my account after 2 months on one SBL. Anyway, I set up this test roundy, I'm dying to see if those bullets do the trick....
     

Share This Page